Readers's Responses (Page 2):

I have received many e-mails from readers asking for more information or just wanting to share their own stories. I have decided to post some of the most interesing e-mails. Please keep in mind that all of these e-mails are readers' opinions (and/or personal experiences) and do not necessarily reflect my views, the views of this server, or the views of their server. Also keep in mind that I have posted these e-mails "as-is" without asking for "hard evidence" to support the person's claims or correcting any grammar or spelling mistakes.

The following e-mails are in chronological oder, the oldest listed first.

Click to go to that month (in 1998):
Jan Feb Mar Apr May June July August September October November December

Click to go to that month (in 1999):
Jan Feb Mar Apr May June July August September December

Click to go to 2000

January 1, 1999

What an experience!

I have had so many experiences mostly negative with the tapes, books and functions.

The products seem to be ok and they have managed to have a great return policy.

After [6 months] in the business, I worked really hard but I had to stop because I found out a lot of information regarding the profits made by "the upline directs".

We are not to talk to anyone in the group unless our upline is present. [And] we cannot "crossline" for any reason in case we compare notes, I guess!

I feel really bad for the people I sponsored. Most of them have dropped out and most won't return my calls.

I really thought the big homes, the cars, the boats, & the planes were a result of the hard work and dedicated efforts of the diamonds and emeralds. I was fooled! The huge incomes are a result of large volumes of people spending money in the hopes of getting rich. It seems to me it's like the Gold Rush of 1898 [where] many people lost their lives, money and dignity searching for gold. The people who became really rich were the people who sold the tools, the mules the food supplies, and the lodgings.

Your website offers us the truth, and sometimes the truth can hurt. Writing this letter helps me to express my feelings and vent my anger at these people who continue to hurt others and drain their pockets at the same time.
Signed [,] the "winner" who quit.

January 14, 1999

Hi John,

I literally drank up the very thorough information you present in your site. I have never been involved in Amway, nor have I ever wanted to. I saw the negative impact it seemed to have on those I knew who were in it and decided that wasn't for me. I have also talked to those who have come out (some at high levels) and what they have to say is discouraging, too. Not to mention that the "plan" just didn't ring true to me. If they're afraid to tell me who they are until the last minute, what do they have to be ashamed of? And it seems that there is an uncomfortable current of deceit underlying everything I've seen -- not just the plan.

I do, however, have a unique perspective to contribute to the topic, I believe. I have a [sister] in Amway, and I myself have been involved with [another cultic group], to boot! (Go figure!)

I have done a little studying on cults since leaving and I do see many, many similarities. Too many to ignore. The worst part is how alienated from [our] family my [sister] has become. [She's] very bright, though, so I am optimistic [she] will eventually see what's what -- I finally did! However, [she's] also very stubborn, and sometimes I get the impression [she] won't give up because it would be embarrassing to [her] to admit defeat. I know that when I left the cult I felt similarly embarrassed. How could I have been so stupid? I was very angry with myself and with God, not to mention the organization itself. It seems anger, guilt, and a sense of betrayal are common in those leaving such organizations. But it was the love and acceptance of my family that helped begin the healing.

I hope my [sister] sees soon what [her] addiction is doing to [our] family, her child especially. [She] has spent thousands, I'm sure, on trips to various "functions" around the continent. [She] has drawers of tapes and boxes of books that are also worth hundreds of dollars, but [her children] eat noodles for supper. [She] quit [her] good-paying job to dedicate [herself] to the "business", but is living in near poverty now. Yet [she] will listen to nothing "negative". [She] worships her "upline" and they are [her] "real family". Wish I knew how to open [her] eyes.

Thanks for letting me vent. I think your site provides a valuable service. Keep up the good work.

PS. I took the liberty of linking to your page from mine. I tell the story there of my experience in the cult and characteristics of cults. You can see it at: http://members.home.net/dawn.ann/cult.htm.

January 26, 1999

Thank you very much for the email. I copied so much anti-Amway stuff yesterday that the cartridge on my printer ran out. This has been a major thorn in my side. There is a man from [California] that has flown to our house twice. His upline is someone named Dougherty. The "key" they say is ME. Well, that lock will never open because I am NOT getting into Amway. When we went to [Texas,] it all clicked to me within an hour. 750.00 for the weekend.. one meal (stale chicken) in a round hotel room. Men telling my husband (a successful businessman) that his beard had to go, although Yagar had one bigger than life. Others telling you how to raise your children when their children were terrorizing the hotel. Baptizing people in the swimming pool. At one point, they told my husband that since I wouldn't submit and go to the meetings, he better get me in line. IT WAS A NIGHTMARE. I rented a car and went to the [mountains] with another friend of mine who is now divorced from her husband because of Amway. This was the Yager organization. I later learned that Dexter owned that hotel. There were people there that l felt so sorry for. One woman obviously could NOT afford that trip. It was cruel.

Now [my husband's relative] is in the ILD organization and they are really putting on the pressure for me to "get in line". I deal and collect [antiques] and I am just fine doing what I do. I don't want to sell soap or sell tapes to my friends, or worry about them spending money they don't have on trips they can't affford, [just] to hear people that talk and say nothing.

I believe that the things I printed yesterday helped a lot. [My husband's relative] doesn't seem to be quite as insistent on Amway. But it is very difficult as this is a very nice [relative] and [my husband] doesn't want to disappoint him. I am going to ask the [my husband's relative's] upline how much money he made on the guys going to Amarillo to the meeting. They did that [meeting] last weekend. I never go, I am very negative about Amway and my [young child] overheard one of them telling my husband that I just don't understand and won't calm down long enough to listen. THIS IS BIZARRE. I feel that my life is being circled by buzzards and there is no one to discuss this with. I do appreciate your e-mail.

Thanks

January 31, 1999

Unfortunately, my hope that the business would change with the new E-biz around the corner has been lowered. As my reason for becoming inactive (although I have a medium size group) was due to my great distaste for the lack of ethics and religious undertones (falsehoods - read: evangelism) of the motivational organizations I came to realize that Amway would only be an attractive business if I could deal directly with the Corporation and not through upline. As I am also a traditional business owner, I also was not looking forward to a higher pin level which in the status quo translates to high maintenance and motivating others through half truths which I am not inclined to do.

I had a small glimmer of hope with the news that the new Amway in mid-summer will deal directly with all distributors and also with the prospect of a new untarnished name, a high tech venture and no need for evangelism tools and half-truths.... well, it seems that I am mistaken. The Britts and the Yeagers & Assoc. have seen a huge increase in sponsorship and tool sales - In fact, the halftruths are now more common as distributors can more legitimately claim it is not Amway but rather E-biz while luring in prospects using mainly figures regarding the success of Internet commerce in general and buzz words such as e-commerce, virtual mall, ISP, ground floor opportunity and so forth. Actually, high pins in the Britt system have gone as far as claim that Britt (who we have been taught by upline is "annointed") is spearheading the whole project for supernatural growth in this year of "Jubilee", and that he came up with this idea on the cutting edge of technology so that we can all "catch the wave". This statement is usually followed with the fact that distributors need to increase book and tape purchases and definitely attend the functions (Amway has made sure that the information only flows through the larger pins before regular dissemination via AMVOX - This naturally is helping function attendance and system revenue).

In general I think this new concept is valid and will be successful to a certain level, especially for already established pins and a definite initial wave of "core" distributors who tow the party line. The new Amway definitely has revenue to ensure a strong media campaign around September 1, 1999 as well as a good online infrastructure (as can be witnessed at the new test site http://www.countdown9199.com). However, it is my personal opinion that the AMO's will do a good job of creating a bad taste and a bad name for the business (before it even starts) and continue to point to others stupidityfor not joining their God chosen cause. Also, I think they overestimate their competitive edge in the market place. Most traditional small businesses online now have internet commerce sites and SSL technology for processing credit cards and no need for inflated costs to pay distributers and manufacturers their cut (PV/BV bonuses, NEW bonuses for website hits and so forth).

This new venture seems to be a saving grace regardless for the "old" Amway and the Britts and Yeager's of the world. Recently, Amway was faced with high level lawsuits, a decrease in revenue, a decrease in sponsoring levels and employee downsizing (who would have though that possible?). Even the rumor of this new business has increased sponsoring (and revenue) dramatically (it didn't effect the downsizing though), the Diamonds are smiling at the influx of tool orders from their new recruits, and who knows, a quick company name change and transfer of assets would render null and void any settlement of lawsuits against the "old" Amway. A typical USAIR to US AIRWAYS slight of hand.

Maybe we are stupid for not going "hog wild" with this thing and partaking in the fun?

February 1, 1999

Dear Mr. John Hoagland,

I was a Direct back in the 80's, but I haven't been in Amway for years. The night before last I attended an open that a friend invited me to, where a Diamond spoke and presented a pre-launch meeting of this "new internet company" that Amway is starting.

I am writing this note to you at 3:30 in the morning. I will make this short as I have been reading a lot of the information on your site and related links for the past 6 hours. I should have been in bed hours ago but when I came across all this information I felt like I was reading a big portion of my life's history. I got on the web to do a little some research on Amway when I ran across your site. I must say that in my time I discovered the exact same things that you have expressed but I had no idea there were others that felt the same way I did. I will be in touch again.

February 1, 1999

Hello John,

When I click to send you an e-mail, I was appalled by your "rules" for sending e-mails. You have expressed your strong opinions about the Amway business so why shouldn't distributors be able to express their strong opinions about the Amway business. Some people truly believe that the Amway business is the best opportunity (spelled correctly) in the world (for them). I have been an Amway distributor for 3 years and have enjoyed the journey. Yes, I have heard all of the rumors about Amway. I was approached 4 times before I joined. The couple who sponsored us were the type of people we wanted to be around. They were professionals (Engineer & Nurse) and easy going people. They were the first people to answer all the questions we had about the business. It wasn't until we got involved that we learned that most of the rumors floating out there are just rumors. I will concede that there are probably a lot of "illegal" (against Amway rules) practices by some distributors. This is probably true in all MLM businesses. That doesn't mean that the Amway business can't be a good opportunity for some people. The first time I heard that the upper level pins make money on tools I was kind of upset. I didn't go to my upline to ask if it was true. I thought about it and figure that it was true. After reading some of the Anti-Amway site, I decided that it really didn't matter if money was made on the tools. As some sites point out, the tools are not generated by the Amway Corp. They are generated through companies that some of the upper level pins have started (I'm with the Britt System). Why should I care if money is made from these tools? I believe that if you are in business for yourself you need to be motivated and keep on top of your field. This is true for any business owner. Walk into any store that sells motivational items and see all the people purchasing cassettes, books, etc. Watch late night TV and check out the infomercials. Lots of people purchase motivational items. I'm sure they are not complaining that the people who produced them are making money. If a distributor feels strongly about their upline making money on the tools then they shouldn't buy them. I usually purchase 1 tape a week (called standing order). If I want additional tapes I purchase them. If I don't, I don't purchase them. There is money to be made in this business outside of the money made in tools. Our sponsors went Direct last year. They held it for 12 months. They received a check for $2,500 from Amway when they went Direct. Since they held it for 12 months they received a $5,000 check from Amway for being Founders Directs and $10,000 from Amway for being Q-12 Directs. I saw the checks with my own eyes. They even got an all-expense paid trip from being Q-12 to Phoenix, AZ for a conference. So if we add up the checks I mentioned: $2,500+$5,000+$10,000 = $17,500. This DOES NOT include their PV bonuses every month. Lets go with what an Average Direct according to the SA-4400 makes, $2100. $2,100 * 12 = $25,000. Lets add the $17,500. That's a total income of $42,700 for 1998. Not bad for a Direct Distributor. There are a lot of Americans who don't come close to $42,000 a year.

You are entitled to your opinions, but please remember that other people have their opinions and are entitled to them. You mentioned that we should "prove" our point to you. Well, I think I just proved that Amway is a good opportunity for people who want it to be. The "facts" that you have on your web-site can be viewed either good or bad. For instance, when discussing the new company being formed for e-commerce (from Amvox), you interjected your comments about what you thought the speaker meant. For example when discussing that this would indeed be a new company, your opinion was that since Amway lost money last year (after experience several years of double digit growth) and are experiencing negative press coverage that they are change their name. Amway has been in business for 40 years and experience many years of bad press covers and didn't change it name. In the 70s, they were investigated by the FTC (and found to be a legal business) and they didn't change their name. So why would they change their name now? This is not a name change, Amway will still be called Amway. Before you start criticizing this new e-commerce business wait to until all the facts are out.

February 2, 1999

I visited your web site and found it interesting. Although you use a highly vituperative tone in your prose I found some interesting information and insight. However, I think that some of your interpretations may not be the only logical inferences that one could make from the information.

For example, where you discuss the chances of becoming a direct distributor you say, ".... Therefore, out of all the possible distributors in the entire Amway business, only 41% meet these criteria as being "active." This also means that 59% of all distributors are NOT active. If you use Amway's estimates (they won't reveal the actual number) that there are 3 million distributors in the entire world, then 1 million 2 hundred thirty thousand distributors are active. (Are the rest either lazy, lost their dream, or quitters, as so many distributors say?) Ask yourself if you want to be involved with a business where over half of all the people aren't doing anything to increase their business." I think that it is rather harsh to call inactive distributors quitters.

Let me suggest another inference that one can make from the fact that 59% of all distributors are not active. An Amway Distributor does not have to be active. An Avon Representative must put in an order each campaign (every 2 weeks); a Young Living Essential Oil Distributor must put in a $50 order once every three months, a Weekenders Casual Wear Coordinator must put in a $100 order once ever six months. I have to go to work every day (how about you?). If you are a financial advisor, insurance agent, or car salesman, you have a certain quota that you must meet or lose your job. One of the good things and also one of the bad things about Amway is that you do not have to do anything if you do not want to. One could interpret this datum as it would be a bad thing to be in Amway because most Amway Distributors are not building their business. One could also interpret that datum as although there are three million Amway distributors world wide and a quarter million in North America, my competition as an Amway Distributor is less than that because less than have of the other Distributors are doing anything.

I have worked places where over half of the people hired to work there would do nothing if they did not have to.

You go on to say, "That translates into 2% of 41% of ALL distributors which equals 2x41 divided by 100 or 0.82%. This means that out of ALL distributors, only 0.82% qualify as a Direct-level distributor. This also means that 99.18% of ALL distributors do not qualify as a Direct-level distributor. Why are all these people not Direct distributors? Are they lazy, lost their dream, or quitters, as well? Again, ask yourself, would you want to be involved in a company where 99.18% of all the people who start building the business are not successful at it?"

I'm glad that you phrased your point as "99% of all ... who start building the business are not successful at it." As you point out (and I agree with you here) Amway is reticent about giving out statistics. Unfortunately, we know how many people buy an Amway kit, but out of that number, we don't really know how many people actually start building a business. I've heard a statistic that only one in twenty distributors have actually sat down with at least one prospect and showed them the plan. If one percent of all distributors who buy a kit become Direct Distributors and only one in twenty (5%) (5 in 100) have ever shown the plan, then would it not be logical to conclude that your chance of becoming a Direct Distributor if you show the plan is about one in five (20%)?

Please note, that I object to calling Distributors who are not trying to build a business lazy or other derogatory names. Amway is built on the theory that it is a free country and those who choose to not show the plan have every right to decline. However, if you do not do the activities needed for success, then you should not complain that you have not achieved success. This is not to deny the testimony of ex-Distributors who say that they have done the work but have not achieved the success. I do not find credible the claim, made by many prospecting distributors that the success rate of their system is 100%. That is everybody who really follows their system succeeds. I also think that claiming that the success rate is less than 1% because only 1% of prospects who purchase a starter kit become Direct Distributors is an unfair interpretation of the facts. I think that the 20% success rate that I stated in the prior paragraph is optimistic, but closer to the truth than 1% is.

By the way. The statistic that 1% of all Distributors are direct is consistent with the statistic that the average distributor has monthly volume of 77 PV. As it takes 7,500 group PV to be on the Direct level, it will take 100 distributors doing 75 PV to achieve that. If half of your group is doing nothing, then it will take 50 distributors doing 150 PV each to achieve direct distributor. If actual figures were released I would expect that out of the 100 Distributors in a Direct Distributor's group, there are about 20 Distributors who between them are doing 6,000 PV in retail sales and personal use. I doubt that all of these 20 Distributors will achieve Direct Distributor level, but some of them will. Perhaps an honest answer to what are your chances of becoming a Direct is one in twenty if you put in the work.

I'd like to also make a comment about the 10 customer rule: (noun) "This rule states that a distributor must have at least 10 retail customers in order to receive a bonus check from Amway. This rule is ignored by many groups as the upline stresses the movement of tools over the movement of products. Note: in 1997, this rule was changed: to receive a bonus check, distributors must achieve 50PV each month. The number of customers is now irrelevant." I have no doubt but that is true. However, I think that it would be fair to admit that some other groups seriously promote building a balanced retail and sponsorship business. One argument is that you can become a direct by sponsoring a group of 75 Distributors who each did 100 PV of personal use, but it would only require that you sponsor 15 Distributors if they each had a business that totaled 500 PV of retail and personal use volume. It is also taught by some systems that you need a retail business to finance your purchases of books, tapes, and functions. If the average cleaning product sold by Amway is worth 5 PV then the sale of one product, per month, to each of 10 customers will satisfy the retail sales rule.

I'd like to make a few more comments about the retail sales rule and the 70% resale rule. These two rules are intended to discourage building inventories to achieve bonuses. I have read these rules carefully with a prejudice favoring Amway. Thus, my conclusions differ somewhat with yours. The 70% rule says that you must sell to retail customers or to your downline 70% of the volume you purchase. There is also a clause in that rule which allows you to consider items bought for personal and family consumption may be considered in that 70%. The 10 customer rule (or 50PV) discourages you from building a business without any retail activity. However, it only restricts performance bonus derived from your downline's activity. It seems to very clearly say that you are entitiled to a performance bonus (more accurately a rebate) on your personal use purchases if they exceed 100 PV even if you did not have any retail sales that month.

Given that and the fact that only a fraction of all distributors actually sponsor anyone, I submit to you that the majority of Performance Bonus checks are give to "wholesale customers". The allegation that I think you are making is that large businesses are built by sponsoring wholesale customers who sponsor other wholesale customers. Here again, Amway's reticence with their statistics forces both of us to speculate. I submit the suggestion that very few "wholesale customers" sponsor others. I further submit the hypothesis that the majority of Distributors who sponsor others also have a retail business.

At one time Amway published statistics about the average BV of Distributors. It showed that Distributors who did not participate in a retail business had a much lower average BV than Distributors who did. It also showed that Distributors who had sponsored downline Distributors had a higher average retail than those who did not. Although these statistics do not prove my hypothesis (stated above) I interpret them as supporting it. I suggest that the majority of Distributors who receive a significant performance bonus check each month are complying with the retail sales rule even if Amway is not putting in much effort enforcing it.

I fear that I've taken up a lot of time with this so I'll cut it off here and perhaps continue some other time. I don't think that I gave you any new data, rather I attempted to suggest another interpretation of the data already presented.

Sincerely,

February 2, 1999

John,

My only personal experiences with Amway include being a customer when I was in college back in the mid 70's.

My second brush with "the business" was in the early 90's when a close friend invited me to a meeting, in their home, regarding a business opportunity. Before attending the meeting I called my friend and asked "Exactly what is the meeting about?"

Since I was a good friend he eventually said "It's Amway", new program, opportunity, yada, yada, yada. At which time I told him, "Thank's for leveling with me, I won't be at the meeting".

My latest brush was a call from a business acquaintance, asking me if I would be interested in "additional income" Which I brushed off ASAP.

What is interesting is that for 16 years (79-95) I was in a cult (Worldwide Church of God) and since WCG implosion it is amazing the number of former WCG's have been recruited into Amway.

Anyway, keep up the great site, I look forward to reading the rest of your story.

February 3, 1999

John,

This will be brief as I know you must be busy. I have truly enjoyed your site today. It really hit home for me. My Husband and I were in Amway for 4 years and in all that time we never made more than $20.00 in any one check. I never received a 1099-misc. I had the foresight though to retain copies of my "bonus" checks to file taxes with. I do believe you are doing a great service for all who may be blind to the facts, as we were when we started. I only wish I had seen this site before we signed on. I have an interesting story for you... We were pretty broke when we signed on and a major function was approaching. We were told by our "upline" we had to go to make our Business grow. We failed to make a mortgage payment on our home and nearly lost it, because we had a hard time coming up with a double payment. All for $20.00 a month. It is all pipe dreams and fantasy. Again, thank you.

February 4, 1999

You pointed out a statistic about the renewal rate. Yes it is absolutely true that between 30% and 50% of all current distributors will choose to not renew this year. Amway does confirm that number I remember when I was taking undergraduate computer courses (circa 1970) on the first day of class there would not be enough seats for all the students registered and by the third week only about 20% would be left. I do not think that we have any disagreement over that datum, however on the interpretation of it we may differ. I think that the low renewal rate is (at least in part) because it is so easy to "get in." If Amway checked your high school and college grades, gave you an aptitude test, asked for personal references, and only selected one out of 20 applicants then asked those that they selected to provide $50,000 for capitalization I suspect that the voluntary drop out rate would not be quite as high. If you have not built a business then you have nothing to lose by not renewing. I suspect that the renewal rate among Distributors who have built a downline organization and a retail business is significantly higher than 50%.

You asked to be put in touch with a group who teaches that you should do a retail business to finance you purchase of tapes, books, and functions. That group would be World Wide Dream Builders (Ron Puryear). I have no first hand information about other groups or about some earlier practices of WWDB, but it is very consistent in the taps and functions I've listened to or attended (by the way, I chose to go off standing order and only attend functions on occasion, and have not been called a quitter yet.) If you want to follow their system, you must service 10 customers each month and do 300PV in retail sales and 200 PV in personal use. They also sell video tapes that teach how to do retail using a retailing system called the In-Home-Shopping-Service and a similar retailing system specifically for Artistry. Amway has authorized WWDB to publish a WWDB IHSS catalog for prospecting and selling to retail customers. There may well be a lot of things that you could say against WWDB, but they do promote retailing as an essential part of building an Amway business.

You mentioned ...."The stories I've heard say that the "average" distributor only does 33PV (roughly). ...." The statistic I've heard was that the average PV was 77. I'm not sure which one is accurate. It may be that it is 33 PV for all distributors and 77 for all active ones. I suspect here again, we can agree on a piece of data, namely; the majority of Amway Distributors do not actively pursue the business. What that datum means to each of us differs. I understand that you interpret this datum to mean that the business itself is flawed, while I interpret it to mean that few people take advantage of the opportunities this system does have to offer.

If you really followed the system (I am one of the many who has not chosen to put the necessary work into it) then you would be sharing information about the business to 10 people each month. Out of those 10 (if you believe the statistics) you would sponsor two. The 8 people that you do not sponsor are potential customers. This system emphasizes that you should put in most of your effort in tying to sponsor others, but make customers out of everyone who says no. It also suggests that a significant number of your customers will become your downline distributors eventually. Very few Distributors who are in the WWDB line of sponsorship actually follow the system. I would suggest that if you owned a McDonalds franchise and did not follow the system they are taught then you would have very little chance of success.

It may be true that the majority of Amway Distributors do no promote retail I do not know. However, it is definitely not true that there are no significant groups within Amway that do not promote retail.

Thanks for responding my email. I hope that the accurate information on your site and similar sites will help Amway Distributors correct the real problems that do exist within Amway. I would like to see them actually become the "Best Business Opportunity in the world." I don't think that they are quite there yet.

February 4, 1999, message #2 from the same author

My further thoughts .......

There are several aspects of a message. One is the actual contents of the message. The other two are possibly even more important, namely the context and intent of the sender and the context and intent of the receiver. Most of the "plans" that I have seen spend a lot of time working on the "dream" or why one should build an Amway business and only a little bit of time spent on how to do it.

The intent of the speaker is to convince you to start an Amway business. It is an advertising pitch and as with all such messages it should be listened to carefully and with some skepticism. I suggest that no plan shower intentiaonally lies. However, they will (as will every body else on every other subject) filter what they say to make their arguments most convincing.

There are a couple of key elements in the Amway Sales and Marketing plan. If you do a 100 PV a month and build a group of 68 other disributors who each do 100 PV a month then you will have over $2,000 a month in income. This is the central point of the plan. A family can do over 200 PV a month in just personal use. This is another important point. If you put the two points together one can logically conclude that if you shift your current spending to Amway products and sponsor others to do the same, then you will make a significant income. The point the you need to also have 10 customers to keep your business legal is mentioned but not given a lot of emphasis.

I see a very valid complaint in your comments. I think that more emphasis should be placed on product sales.

Perhaps it is this lack of up-front education about product sales that reults in the large turnover rate. It may be that once one discovers that product sales are a part of the busines that people leave. Perhaps if a more accurate and appropriate emphasis was placed on product sales, then there would be fewer peole joining Amwy but more people staying.

February 6, 1999

John,

I found the information to be very interesting and some of the comparisons are accurate. I currently own 2 computer businesses and an investment corp., and I am involved with the Amway corporation, as a representative/contractor. Many of the rumors and unethical business practices by other representatives/contractors of the Amway Corp. are certainly true. I have also seen alot of unfair practice between distributors, but companies have trials and disagreements everyday in any business. For example look at one of the largest auto companies in the world, GM, on any given week they have over 2000 standing law suits (US Dept of Labor/Library of Congress, Legal Doc's). Also, look up Nike, Coca-cola, P&G, DOW Chem and any fortune 500 company, the number of court cases will astound you. Amway has it's share of cases, but all businesses share the load.

The question of pricing is something of question as well. I will admit that Amway corp has some higher priced Brands of products, but Interestingly enough there is no mention of the cost efficient products, which by the way do exist. I suggest getting an up to date Wholesale Price List-1999 and a few catalogs and then create a few comparisons( a few thing to look up-Garbage bags, Clothing, Shoes, Cosmetics, and the discount sales published in the monthly Amagram. I would do this myself, but then again I'm not hosting the site. Most people do not understand where and how the bidding of products for a large business works. If you get a deal on one line of products one month the next month you may pay more for that line, but get a discount on another line. No Middle operator gets the best price on all lines. Compare toilet paper at Kroger, which would be higher than Super K or Meijer, but Kroger has Chicken and diapers on sale. We look at that as consumers and say we'll go to all three and get only the sales, and that's when we're hooked 94% of consumers that enter a grocerie store for a sale end up buying 2 items more or spending 2 times what they woul have saved. That is the game and retailers have known that for years it's all marketing. The bottom line is, if people think they're going to pay too much for a few items via Amway go else where, they are adults who make choices.

I understand the baggage that the Amway corporation has due to many ignorant representatives/contractors, but remember they are only contractors not employees. We can choose to go elsewhere any time. The professional organization of business leaders I am affiliated with reads like a who's who in politics, business and government. We promote alot of leadership base principles for all businesses, and if people build another successful business outside an Amway brokerage, that's great. In many cases they have learned a few principles, that ordinarily are not available, and has helped them to build their other business as well.

The site is very informative and has some valid points. It just seems that alot of effort went into downgrading 1 company, you can set up a site to diminish virtually any business, most of them do have loopholes, that is the competitive nature of them. I'm not blind, I realize that this is not traditional and many contractors with the Amway Corp. have been over-zealous salespeople, as well as army-like dictators, but many businesses are run the same only they hold the paycheck over their head. We need to learn to be more flexible and informative about both sides of an issue and as leaders respect another person's success and flops in business ethics. I wish you luck in your ventures and I appreciate the opportunity to respond.

PS: The internet will change market structure of network marketing and Amway as we know it will dissolve. The alliances with corporate leaders and several private family backers are much too powerful in this On-Line/Internet deal, this will be a new concept all the way around. None of the old concepts of "Amway" will apply-

February 9, 1999

Dear John:

I am a current 1000 pin and I found your site by accident. I have been a 1000 pin for 2 years. I haven't grown one bit. Why? Because I am not Seeing The People or Showing The Plan. And, I really haven't been Selling The Products. STP, STP, STP!!

I have no doubt that our upline receives a profit from Tools we purchased. I think that this is a great reward. Why? A lot of come into the Amway business as blue collar folks. Most of us are just high school educated. And, most of us wouldn't know how to handle a 100,000.00 income. We weren't raised around that kind of money. The books and tapes that are available for us to purchase (only if we want) help us change our ways of thinking. It's not that there has been any thing wrong with our current lives. I have always made about 30,000.00 a year. But, I really would love a big house, a boat, a camper, acreage for my children to play, horses, time with my children, both parents home to enjoy raising them..... as I have so many things that this money could buy. These books and tapes have taught me that I could be a successful business woman and I could make more than 30,000.00 a year. Not just as an Amway Distributor, but any business I decide to own. I believe that there are many out there who would like to be able to afford something special that there child is asking for without saying, "we just don't have the money for that..." or "you'll have to wait till I get paid and then after I pay our bills...." . My son is 8 and he is so excited about the Amway Business Opportunity. He will remember the lower income level we lived at, but, he will also remember how I overcame and moved us to an upper income level.

Finally, are you aware of where we are going this year? The founders of the Amway Corporation are beginning a new company. It will be a virtual mall with over 3,000 + stores we have been told. We will all be warehouse authorized and products from one can of peas to one pack of diapers can be delivered right to us. No more product pickup!! yeah!! No more bounced checks or people not paying for their orders!! yeah!!! There will be a place within the site as how to become a member and save money. As a member they'll receive great benefits as well as retail profit checks and wholesale bonus checks. There will also be a virtual office on the site. This will keep track of all our volume and retail monies generated on a monthly, and yearly form.

Now, more than ever am I building my business. When this site launches I would rather be 50 people directing people into the site to decide if they want to buy something or become a member than just me. There will be no convincing someone to do this. The site will "speak" for itself.

I am part of the Britt World Wide Organization. I have really enjoyed meeting the many folks that have come into my path. I can honestly say that my attitude towards life, God, my children and my current "Job" I owe all to the person who showed me Britt World Wide and the Amway Opportunity. Would I take a bullet for them, probably not, but, If I needed any help, as I have had to in recent months, my "friends" are there for support. When I cannot do 100 PV they do not turn their backs on me, nor do they anyone else in our organization. If something comes up and I cannot attend a function they do not throw me to the wolves. They understand.

I truly hope you'll post my message. For those who just want a little positive affirmation, a little comfort, a little cheering "you can do it" this is the best opportunity. For those who don't want to work for their money, who are looking for a get rich quick, who think they don't have to do anything to become successful then, this is not for them. To everyone who decides this is for them, best of luck to you. To those who don't or have had a negative experience, I am truly sorry for what you have had to go through. Best of luck to you too.

Sincerely,
Kelley Grabill,
Knoxville, Tennessee
grabillk@yahoo.com

February 11, 1999

Just yesterday I was hit with an e-Commerce presentation.

Just a quick background; About a year ago, I was hit by a regular Amway Dexter/Yeager concubine . Thanks to the information in your web sites, I was able to send this jerk packing. They said and did everything your sites said they would say. Not a very bright bunch are they. Well, here is a recollection of this guys e-Commerce presentation. I was holding back from laughing during the whole thing.

I was given a call by someone looking for people with Technical skills to get involved with a new e-Commerce site. I guess a friend of mine gave out my number. (He will be dealt with later). Naturally I was curious to hear what he had to say. He told me that a brand new super e-Commerce site was about to be launched and wanted to know If I was interested in a meeting. I asked what company is heading off this venture and what part do you play in it? He stated that a name had not been established yet there will be one very soon. He also through in some names of companies that would be involve,. names like Amazon.com and Yahoo! as possible future vendors for the new eMall. My red flag went up. They guy did not answer my question. (I'm thought maybe he wants me to write some HTML code or maybe take me on as a potential local merchant.) He went on say that this would all be best discussed in person becasue there is allot of material to go over. The avoidence tactic was enough to trigger the word Amway into the back of my mind. But I was still very curious. I was already involved the Internet profesionly. So I agreed to meet the guy. He was insistent on meeting at my place. I figured, if this guy wants to talk e-Commerce. We should meet a place of commerce. The local Mall's Food Court at closing time I though would be a suitable time. I hoped all the noise and distractions would be enough to put reverse pressure on any sales pitch. I met him at 9pm and proceeded to find a table amongst the movie crowds and cleaning people. He was well dressed and wore allot of jewellery. He looked to be in his early to mid 40's. He pulled out Compaq laptop computer onto the table top and booted up to Windows NT. (The guy barley looked like he knew how to work the thing.) He then pulls out what first seemed to be small shiny card badge. "This is my new business card" he said. On the front of it was written "Architects of the Future". He said, It's the latest in storage technology. "Wow", I thought, "let me see that." He passed it over to me and noted It was a just CD ROM cut into the shape of a small square business card with the disc hub hole in the center. I flipped on the back side to see where the tracks would be written. I noted that the outer edge of the center hub had no track space on it. Only the outer edges fo the rectangle had track space on it. If it spins like a CD it won't read because of the break in the track's sequence. I shook my head. ( I got to see this). He then said,"This is going be so cool." He popped the card into the CD ROM player. Closed the tray and then types in his NT password to log into the machine. (This is Obviously just a prop. The presentaion starts from the Startup folder.) Suddenly, after logging in a screen presentation comes to life runing a PowerPoint like presentation. (I later asked hime for a copy of the card., He said it was the only copy he had currently, What a surprise) unsuspecting non people might fall for this prop. The Presetation went on starts out with "Are you tired of working, Do you want to be Independent, Blah, Blah, We're Rich your a just a stupid worker type hype. Then I saw name and picture Dexter's picture popped up with is wife. Full blown alert. I know for sure I was that this was an Amway presentation. The presentation went on quote the outrageous figures and Charts on the growth of e-Commerce Quoting Trillions of dollars.. Now And 100 Trillion by the end of 2001. But no were in the entire 20 minute presentation was Amway ever mentioned nor was the concept fully expalined for making money. Buy pure politeness and pure curiosity to see how far this would go before Amway was mentioned by this fellow. It was over 15 minutes before I heard the word Amway spoken from this guy. He said Amway was only associated assisting the organizing of this new e-Commerce site but was not directly involved with it. He mentioned the Y2K scare and buying food and House hold items from your home at manufacturer prices. (buying from your own store) He gave the same ridiculous Amway story line about recruiting other to leverage your time and mentioned going to Rallies and getting Motivational tapes to keep you on track. I was dying inside. I wanted to laugh in this guy's face. I told him I would need more time. I confronted about what I heard from a friend about the Motivational Tapes Scam and wanted to know how I heard about that. I told him from a friend. I told him though I may be interested in seeing more information. He gave me card with the web sites listed on it. Shook his hand and bid him good night. . I was both disgusted and laughing at the whole incident. I was given the following. .

[www.mtcart.com Password 00696rwh] and [www.countdown9199.com with IBO# 184006]

These Jerks have got to be stopped. 20/20, Dateline. or some other of these TV shows need warn people about these dangerous and predatory deception tactics. They are preying off the legitmate use of e-commerce on the internet.

February 12, 1999

Dear Sir:

I am crying as I write this letter to you. I have been through your site all the while thanking "The Lord God Almighty" that someone definitely knows what I have been through. Your section for those of us who have lost loved ones to this "organized scam" was what did it for me. I am surprised at how much this still hurts.

You see my so called [father] has had nothing to do with me since dropping out of this so called "opportunity". I have one son that [he] last saw when the child was [a year old] (you guessed it, the visit was Amway related), any previous visits involved me driving to see [him] when [his] business schedule allowed it (he lives 1/2 hour away). My beautiful son who has ambitions to [...] play in the World Cup one day will be 8 this July. How do I answer him the next time he asks "Mommie, I know who [grandpa] is (on his paternal side), but where is YOUR [father], why has [h]e never called me or sent me a Christmas or Birthday Card? Is he mad at me?"

We answer these questions the best we can, but it still hurts, terribly. I have recently heard that [my father] is financially broke, ([he] is losing [his] second home) brainwashed, and yet more determined than ever that [he] will succeed at this crap. [He] is now trying to establish contact with me for money.

Where my story is concerned this is only the tip of the "iceberg", but I don't want to take up anymore of your time. I am basically writing to say thank you and don't give up, we need you. Our family is here for you and ready to join the fight. I have already started locating correct e-mail addresses for the companies listed and will be forwarding their addresses to you. If there is anything else I can do don't hesitate to e-mail me anytime.

February 15, 1999

Hello John!

I just read your sight on the net on how AMWAY is a cult. I'm so glad to have found it. I never had any idea that Amway is a cult or cult like. I'm not a distributor but my Mom is. She signed up a few weeks ago. I went to one of their meetings and I felt throughout the meeting as if I was being forced to become a distributor. The speaker talked... it was horrible. At the end of the meeting the speaker asked me three times if I wanted a book and cassette to take home read and listen to. Then the fourth time I accepted but to tell you the truth I never listened to the cassette nor did I read the book. The book by the way is called WHO STOLE THE AMERICAN DREAM by Burke Hedges, and the cassette is called YOUR NEXT MOVE GETTING THE FACTS FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE THEM. I've always felt something evil about AMWAY just wasn't sure of what it was. I was to approached by my moms upline we sat down at the kitchen table and discussed how my future looks like now...and how my future will look like with AMWAY. They drew a small circle and said this is your income without AMWAY...then they said we will show you how to develop your income bigger and bigger and bigger with AMWAY and as she was saying this she began drawing a bigger and bigger circle sound familiar? anyways as I listened to what she had to say mostly about my goals and my future and how I can only achieve it with AMWAY. I asked her then how much of an income are you making now with AMWAY, she said that she wasn't allowed to say that info. As I was reading your page I realized you were right when you said that the distributors make nothing at all or very little. Anyways I've refused to join AMWAY...but my Mom joined it and I'm really worried that very soon she will become brain washed by these people. I don't know wat I should do to make her see the truth about AMWAY if you could please suggest something, some form of help. I would greatly appreciate it. I wrote down your webpage address and I will show my mom tomorrow your page I will ask her to read it maybe there is still hope because she is new to this. Anyways God Bless You for putting a page up like this to warn helpless victims.

Thanks for your time.

February 16, 1999

From: Zachary V
Subject: web site

I realize that the world that you live in is perfect and that you must have the best life of all the humans on the planet. I draw this conclusion by the fact that you have devoted a large chuck of your life to this web site so you must be able to lead all of these people to a better opportunity for their lives, right? Think now of all the hours you have spent putting together this site and look at your children or family and realize that it was time stolen from them. Sad, isn't it? Do you realize that all of the weak people that could not build Amway would have found that out soon enough without your web site? All you really need to do is give the weanies a list to choose from; they don't need long dissertations because any excuse will do. Lastly, do you find it pathetic that you now associate with people that could not even build an Amway business and have to explain themselves by putting together a long article of the challenges that they found and why they can not succeed?

You may feel free to respond, but I would love to know a few things. First, how far did you get in the Amway business? Second, what have you found to do with your life that is much better than building Amway? Lastly, are you a Christian? I ask that because without that foundation it is understandable how you view the value system that the people in Amway have as cult-like. The fact is that the people that do stick around enjoy the release of being able to be happy and excited about life.

Have a GREAT Day --I AM

February 17, 1999

Just wanted to send you a note to say that the quasi legal crap Amway is now pulling is ridiculous. I am currently a distributor, although I am very, very inactive. My experience with the Amway Corporation (especially the Britt Worldwide AMO) is that they say one thing and mean another. My wife and I are in the Britt line of sponsorship. To say they mixed religion and business is an understatement. I personally have been wrestling with spiritual issues ever since we left that evil, manipulating group. They play upon your spirituality in so many ways that it can almost destroy your religious faith when you find out the truth. Today I still wrestle with spiritual issues that would not be a consideration if I had not joined this wretched business. I would not be a distributor at all if my wife did not like one or two of their products.

I am an attorney here in South Carolina and it makes me sick to see the legal abuses of the Amway corporation. The abuse of subpoena power is a cheap and gutless way to put the squeeze on a rival. The real reason is probably that they are scared of the naked truth being exposed about their pyramid scheme (oops, I meant business!). Abusing discovery mechanisms is a classic way to attempt to destroy opposition. I must note that I am a government attorney and might be seen as being more conservative in my interpretation of the First Amendment. However, I think that our system of open discussion is vital to a free country. That being said, I agree that the flagrant abuses of organizations such as Amway and the many AMO's must be made public.

They tell the world that they are so ethical and yet they use the legal system to beat down those who speak the truth. In my practice I have seen this tactic used many times, but it always ends up hurting the purveyors of such treachery. The Amway opportunity has potential, but it is being abused by individuals (Bill Britt is a glaring example) to the point that it borders on the absurd. I will never forgive my sponsor and the others who caused me to lose tens of thousands following a system that is corrupt and totally unchristian. Not only will it separate you from your family, it will cause you to spend thousands on motivational materials and functions where you will not learn anything. After several functions you too can learn the "truth", that God wants you be rich and to do achieve this will require the next function!! When I told my upline about my decision to leave he basically told me I had no "dream" and was I giving in to the "masses". Does the fact that I want to continue my law career make me a loser?---I think not!

Their "teachings" will only weaken your faith in humanity (and Christianity) and ultimately leave you broke. Bill Britt (and Amway in general) is really no different from any other cultic leader/organization out there. The message may sound good at first, however, if you have rational thought capacity, the reality will eventually hit you. Bill Britt is truly one of the best con-artists out there. If you are a conservative (as I am) it is easy to fall for his spiel initially. Once you realize that he is an overrated blowhard, egomaniac, and total fraud, your faith in Amway will be seriously damaged! The God I know does not require you to force your wife into the role of mindless, subservient bondservant (i.e. Peggy Britt).

I am not afraid of Amway--they cannot stop a person from communicating their opinion. Oh no! I bought a P&G product at the store a while ago---do you think I am connected to them?!

February 24, 1999

Dear John,
Just came from Sydney Schwartz's website and was appalled at what Dexter Yeager wrote on his web! Why, Dex is so religious! Yet he called Sydney gay and an asshole!!! Dex said that Amway had changed him, how?! Was he worse than he is now or did he get worse? Still an Idiot to me!!! I'm glad we got out before we lost more than $150.00! Our sponsor was making my husband late for his job and was tearing down some people that my husband had grown up with!!! Of course he didn't know that we had known them for years!!! We are True Christians and don't hide behind the name to hurt others!!! Just a bunch of Hypocrates to me!!! Their products were used as directed, like their dishwashing liquid, and I found Dawn or Pamolive to work better! I'm proud of you men for telling people the truth about them and I will spread the truth around here too, by telling people about your websites!!! Our Hearts and Love are with you al!!!

February 25, 1999

Dear John,

You do not have to respond all the time, but I am coming across some intresesting stuff related to Amwy! Did you know that DeVos and the founder of LifeLine are pumping millions into religious right causes? DeVos and a member of the secretive Council for National Policy (CNP), along with a number of Amway Distributors, are heavily involved with Woody Jenkins!!! Head of the CNP! This is only the tip of the iceberg! [Dexter Yager] gives ay least $100,000 a month to Rev. Jerry Falwell's Liberty University. LifeLine has 1 mil. customers found through conservative Christian groups. LifeLine also supports 35,000 Christian groups and gives them $1.5 mil. each month!!! Founder Terry Freeny hopes to put $85 Mml. a year into the Kingdom, meaning Christian groups. To sign up new customers, LifeLine networks with these Chridtian groups promising to give the groups 10% of the billing that comes through the groups members. So, virtualy, every right group pushes LifeLine through literature sent to its suppoters. LifeLine's main sales pitch focuses on Abortion and intolerence for Gays and Lesbians, claiming that the major long-distance carriers pour money into Gay Rights Movements and Planned Parenthood. All these guys know each other! Now I know why Dex called Sydney a gay!!! Punch up A Rising Star, Amway and LifeLine,and Money for Vouchers if you have WebTV. There is an awful lot of stuff under Amway when punched up under Search!!! I wasn't sure if you were aware of any of this or not. God Bless

February 26, 1999

I came across your site while in search for something else. I read a bit of it, since I had somewhat of an interest in the subject. Some years ago, through work, my husband met a couple that sold Amway on the side. These two seemingly nice and upstanding people seemed to *really* like my husband and myself. We couldn't understand why the sudden close friendship... I mean we *are* witty, intelligent, attractive... Ha!... BUT... you get the idea. It was just as you described in "lovebombing".

We soon were 'pestered' on a regular, intermittant basis to join them in the wonderful world of Amway. My husband had a mild interest; I wanted no part of it. Though the wife, [Wendy], seemed to be a nice person, it became more and more obvious that the husband, [Brad], of this team was a real pervert. They were supposedly very religious, but I found [Brad's] leering and attempts at hugs and kisses increasingly creepy. Then I learned from my husband the reason this guy went jogging faithfully every evening after dark: to peek into windows at women.

Their avid recruitment efforts went on for several years. Each time [Brad] would call, my husband would become more vague and non-committal. One day my husband told him not to call anymore. Soon after, [Brad] arrived at our door demanding the product samples and catalogs he had "given" us. I was under the impression the samples were for us to use and "sample". My husband said he became very irate when it looked like we had used up some of them and couldn't give them back. Thought you might find this amusing, though you've probably heard it all before.

I also had an impressionable young friend who went with cousins (they paid her way!) to [California] for an Amway meeting/convention. She became swept away with their promises. After reading a bit of your site, I'm *so* glad we were able to talk her out of joining.

March 1, 1999

Dear Mr. Hoagland:

Yesterday my wife and I were visited by a man and his wife, and a high level Amway distributor. We had no idea it was Amway. The man, who met my wifewhile both were waiting for tires at Wal-Mart, told her about a business he was thinking about starting.

They came and gave us a presentation about how we needed to make more money. It was like a slide show, but on a laptop.

Finally, I asked if it were Amway, and the big guy admitted it. he said they are starting an internet operation in September with IBM and Microsoft, and the name will be QuikStar. He said there will be some 2,000 companies which they will be in partners with.

They wanted $160 to "register us". When I asked what we would do to make money, he said we would do presentations like the one he was doing. He has a big home in Breckenridge, Colorado, and showed us a picture of it. The man and wife had just come back from Holland, and were doing $2,000,000 a year in business with no effort on their part, or so he said.

March 2, 1999

(a recent press release)

[If this article outrages you, let Amway know your feelings. E-Mail them at: Amway Corporation]

March 3, 1999
From: SCOTT LAMBSON
To: John Hoagland

[Note: If anyone wants to help educate this person, please e-mail him. He is obviously believing all the lines he being told. Please forgive the errors- they don't teach spelling or grammar in the Amway business.]

It is very evident that you were a part of the Amway business at one time or another. YOU, need to quit miss informing [spelling] people on the net, and get better educated information about the Amway business opp.

Did you know that they did over 7.6 billion dollars in sales in just one year ??? [This is new to me, as I have kept up on Amway's revenues since I was a distributor in 1996. The highest Amway ever made was $6.8B.]
Did you know that next to microsoft, the Amway business has created over 2200 millioniars [spelling]??? [More than a number of people have told me that this statement is completely unfounded and CAN NOT be supported by any kind of factual information.]
Did you know that if Amway was a cult that they would have been shut down???? ['Amway' (the Corporation itself) is not a cult, which is why they have not been shut down. However, the AMO's are a cult-like group, but they are non-regulated. So, it is very hard to "shut them down."]
Did you know that with alot [spelling] of that money, they give big contributions and donate??? [So what? Mobsters give money to charities- does this make their activities any more legal?]
It took Coca Cola over 15 years to do that kind of money volume!!! [And, so? What is his point?]
I could go on and on about alot [spelling] of things, so get accurate information befor [spelling] you mislead people, on things you have no comon [spelling] knowledge of [grammar]!!!!
Thank-you

March 3, 1999

(another recent press release)

[If this article outrages you, let Amway know your feelings. E-Mail them at: Amway Corporation]

March 3, 1999

Dear John

First off I was a memeber of the great deception from 1981 to 1990. In the process I went all the way to PSDD and yes, I was making some bucks...

I could tell you stories that could fill a book... Anyway, I started to see the big lies and became aware of the deceptive methods, WHILE I was doing quite well in the "business" and I quit (yes I QUIT...) and the earth did not open up to swallow me. Unfortunately, my son is in this thing now, he bought the entire party line hook, line and sinker... [for[ 6 years now!!!! In those years, he "sold" 2 kits, his biggest PV check was $14.00... you know the picture. Now cometh the 'e-commerce' and "they" think that this is it! Well, at least they don't have to "ralphcramden" anymore (humennihumennihum,) when asked; "Is this Amway"? or "well, what is it"? No, no more hedging, because here it is the name of the "NEW"? Amway....KICKSTAR (no joke!!!!!) Corp. I immediately changed it to "QUICKSAND" so I got an other label of "negative" from my son.

By the way in case you would not know, check out their website:

www.futurestep.com

Good "talking" to ya'

March 3, 1999

I believe I got suckered into an Amway meeting. I was in a book-store with my wife and we were looking over the computer books, when all of sudden this guy started talking to us. He told us about his work with a new internet business that will be working with Microsoft and some big time investors. I told him that I am pretty knowledgeable in the internet and can could train people to use it, so he invited me to a meeting. I went to the meeting and was pretty excited about what they had to say. It was all about 30% savings, e-commerce, reaping the benefits of buying yourself and getting your friends to do the same and you get the benefits of their buying. Finally he got around to saying who the distributor was going to be, AMWAY, immediately a red flag went up in my head. Later that night, I went to do a little research on AMWAY on the net, and that's when I came across your site. I sat there for two hours and browsed around and you all couldn't be more right. The meeting went exactly the way you all described it, from the introduction, to the timing, the words used and the dollar amounts I could potentially make.

AMWAY is getting into e-commerce and they are going by the name of QUIXTAR.com. Please pass this on to others on the Webring, because Multi-level marketing is the same no matter what name it is called.

March 6, 1999

Thanks for the site. I found it to be most useful and entertaining. We were "Amwayed" last year. My partner was waiting for our down comforter to dry at the commercial cleaners when a matronly woman started up a chat with him and acquired our phone number. ([My spouse] is from rural Alaska and had not previously been exposed to this sort of thing.) She called us months later and wanted to bring her husband to meet with us about a business opportunity. I asked point-blank on the phone, "Is this Amway?" She said "no" but would not elucidate further. For entertainment's sake, I set up a time with her. She and her husband showed up, made small chat, and then broke out the binder. When I asked her why she had denied the Amway connection over the phone, she claimed I had never asked.

[My spouse] and I had a terrific time picking their math apart. We also took the opportunity to practice our special technique of ensuring that salesmen, zealots, etc., never return to our house: being terribly friendly and unwilling to let them get a word in edgewise because we are prattling on and on about particularly inane topics. ("Is that a new crack in the plaster, honey?" "Well, I don't know, it could be." "I think it is - that wasn't there last year when I repainted." "Oh, yes, it could have been that earthquake last week." "Or the one last month." and so on and so forth ad nauseam.) We can be tremendously boring when we want to, apparently!

We kept them for FOUR hours. We also allowed the cats and the dog in, so that the Amwayites could experience the joy of our three very friendly, long-haired, shedding animals. I found the most annoying music I could and played it at a just high enough level to make conversation strained. And I put garlic in the oven to roast, to really enhance the mood.

They almost _ran_ out the door and we have never been bothered since. They didn't even offer to leave product with us to sample. : )

I'm passing your URL on to everyone I know. Thanks again!!!

March 8, 1999

This is intended to be a follow-up to the earlier e-mail on sent on February 17, 1999. In that e-mail I said that I that the Amway Corp. and the Motivational Organizations were deceptive and used religion to push the business. Well, even though they may say that it is a new business on the Internet-- THEY ARE LYING!!! I just spoke with a distributor that I knew quite well back in my brainwashed days. He told me that I should not have left the "business" because it is now going on the Internet and was "going to explode." He said that he is no longer afraid to mention Amway because they were "no longer the primary corporation" they worked with. I cannot remember the exact name of the supposedly new corporation, but the main thing is he said they will still work with Amway. Then he told me that the Britt System is still intact and was his primary vehicle for "doing the business" on a day to day basis. He told me that God had given the leaders the vision that the Internet was the place to be and that they were following his lead!!

All I can say is that the whole scam appears not to have really changed at all. Whether you push your allegedly christian business through the old way or through the Internet you are still committing the same abuses. My only fear is that large numbers of unsuspecting people will fall for this new scam and end up like the rest of us who have gone before. (Broke and disillusioned). My "friend" told me that they will still be having functions and other meetings as they had always done before. This basically means that the exact same abuses and problems from before will still be present. Countless people will be encouraged to attend functions that are worthless and spend their money on tools they do not need. In fact, I am sure that the Internet connection will lend itself to more abuses, "You really need to purchase my software, computer, tapes, materials, etc.. to succeed!"

God help the masses if this fraudulent change provides a way for that despicable group of people to succeed in their quest to rip off the public!

March 10, 1999

Hi,

I just visited your site and enjoyed reading it. It brought to memory a time about 12 years ago when an Amway rep tried to recruit me. I was eating lunch at a pizza place and a guy the next table over saw I had some papers out on the table. (I was working as a door-to-door vacuum cleaner salesman at the time, and the papers I had out were orders that had been filled out that morning.) The guy asked what I seemed to be studying so intently and started a seemingly innocent conversation with me. He told me he had also worked once as a door-to-door salesman for a competitor vacuum cleaner company. We each shared some of our stories, and we had a few good laughs together. I thought I had met a pretty decent person. At the end of our lunches, he gave me his business card, and it said something vague on it like his initials followed by the word "Enterprises." As we got up to leave he paused and looked at me. He told me that I seemed "like a real go-getter," and that he wanted to see me again next time he was in town. He told me that he had "something special" for me. Afterwards, I was curious about what he meant by "something special."

A few weeks later, he did call me and told me that he would be in town again and wanted to see me. We met at a local restaurant, and he seemed very, very friendly and excited to see me, unusually so for having only recently met. That made me very suspicious. During our dinner together, he showed me "the plan," and I'm sure you know how the rest of the story goes. I did not accept his invitation to join Amway, and to this day I am glad that I didn't. I didn't know much about Amway then, but the more I have learned about it over the years, the more glad I was that I didn't join.

Anyway, just thought I'd pass along my experience. I always that it was a clever recruiting line that the guy used...saying that he had "something special" for me. It did get me wondering what it was, and I thought that I would be given a legitimate job offer or something, but I found out different.

March 12, 1999

I just wanted to say that this site is very impressive. I have been in the Amway business (for about a week) and learned quite a few things very quickly about this organization. In any event, what I have read on your site appears to hit a lot of buttons as to my experiences with Amway. I, fortunately, left Amway before it had any serious impacts on my life. I cannot believe that something is not done about their approach to people on how they push their promotional material. They would have had us spend several hundred dollars on a waste of repititous tapes and books that are to say the least, far from best sellers. Anyway, you have a very well orchestrated website and I thank you for the information. It only confirms what I already knew.

March 12, 1999

Thank you John!
Neither my husband or I had ever been approached by Amway in the past, but I had heard all of the negative information. Last week my husband was in the drugstore and was approached by an employee(formerly a co-worker at another business)about a possible opportunity she and her husband were involved with. She wouldn't say more. Her husband called to set up an appointment at our house...I smelled a rat and asked to meet them at their house. Nobody wants to let you into a money making business for free out of the goodness of their heart. If we were to enter into a profitable business with them I wanted to see how they were living! Amway was never mentioned. We talked about computers and the internet. We thought they needed some computer help (my husbands business). Then Loren started to tell us about a great opportunity on the internet. No specific domain names or addresses. No talk about money. Just what a great "on-line mall" this set up was going to be. Brand names and the Fortune 500 references, ground floor opportunities, etc. I said "this sounds like some kind of Amway scam, a pyramid structure." Loren sat up straight in his chair and DECLAIMED "Amway is not a pyramid in the eyes of the FTC! He asked what I know about Amway. I told him I never bought any products but was familiar with its rep as a scheme. "Not like that at all...unique on-line mall!...as a groundfloor franchisee(sp) we could make money...spouted "facts and figures" about how this division of Amway represent 80% of Amways income. All I can say is once I heard the word Amway...I was out of there! Thank Goodness we didn't let them come to our house!! Sign us "Thank you for being skeptics"

March 12, 1999

Hey John! What is the deal here?!?!
It seems that you have really got a hard-on in an "bad" way for these Amway people and their business.
If these subpeonas you are getting is for real. I mean it sounds unreal to me.
Tell me do they think that a little web site such as yours will bring their company down?
Don't get me wrong I am a firm believer that DAVID slew Goliath, but come on... this can't really be happening.
Afterall what is the discrepancy about what they have made or not made for that matter.
$6 billion or $7 billion what the double 'HE (Hockey Sticks) does it make?
Aren't they a big huge company that has been in critical mass for years already?.
Amway is not going anywhere.
Even if what you say is true. Can't they just take their money and close up shop and buy NEW business interests in other markets, industries, and companies.
Besides don't they have their own mutual fund and managers?
Can't their capital be moved around?
Certainly they can ZERO out in TAXES.
I mean they wouldn't be the first fortune 500 company to do this you know.
And $25,000,000.00,... this ain't a 'pimple on their @$$ETS'. Especially if they took in $28 million. That's what they call a profit. A cost of doing business. Is it not?
As far as wealth goes don't you think that they have already redistributed their wealth in such a way that they could never be bothered by an attack on their company. Besides they have already been under attack for years. Even if someone won a lawsuit against them. They have insurance. And where they don't have insurance they have cash and assets that cover them like so many fur coats.
Especially once they got passed the giant called Federal Trade Commission. They are here to stay.
I mean once a company goes through that 'fine tooth comb' and survives, that means you are hear to stay for real.
Guess what, RJR Nabisco sold cigarettes and made billions. And killed people to in the process. And I don't condone this. (@#@@@#$ I don't even smoke). Which I am sure you are aware of they are still in business.
And of course they have had all kinds of attacks, conflict, and strife even from CONGRESS.
So what do they do. They start selling COOKIES here in the US of A, and continue to up the sale of those CANCER STICKS in Europe and the Far East, and China to mention a few.
And even with all of the 'Hype' about don't smoke this and don't smoke that.
RJR still survives. Just like any other HUGE billion dollar company has done.
They will get theirs in the end. By that time they will have already become something else that the public doesn't recognize and supports just the same.
Don't you think that MLM is not going anywhere?
A lot of people are making money from MLM and networking.
I mean these are facts.
Not to say that inexperienced people do not get misled or don't understand the full picture. It just means that everyone is not meant to be at the head of their own company, until they have been equipped with the knowledge through study or perseverence, and/or whatever.
A person does have to make themselves knowledgeable. When they do, they are equipped to follow their dream no matter what.
The fact of the matter, if a person is going to succeed they will no matter what they do. Provided they do what is needed or required at the time to succeed. By preparing themselves with KNOWLEDGE and the benefit of a Comprehensive PLAN OF ACTION,... then execute that plan.
And as far as dreams go... well everybody needs a dream.
Maybe yours is trying to help someone not be misled by misinformation and to make up their own mind, I don't know?
Maybe not.
Maybe you just like blowing off steam and making controversy.
Whatever. So be it.
As far as the web goes... I look at everything with a fine tooth comb just like the FTC, yet even more closely.
That's All.
BTW, this is an original quote, and not a taped one I assure you. And I am not attacking anyone you or any company.
But I will say this... there is more going on than even what you have researched... continue to seek and you SHALL surely find more facts that you will find quite interesting indeed.
Later & Peaceout,
IMHO, an observer on the web.

March 15, 1999

I grew up in a small town in South Carolina. Our next door neighbors were heavily into Amway. Those were the days when you used to have to carry an inventory at home. I remember going over to their house and seeing all the stuff in one room of their house that they used for the "Business". I also remember the picture of the Mercedes Benz on the refrigerator. As a small child I was spared the sales pitch but everyone in our neighborhood wasn't. Needless to say, we didn't go over to their house very much. Those people are strange....

15 years later....

I live in [...a] suburb of New Orleans. I get a call from a guy (who I only vaguely know from work) asking me if I want to make some additional money on the side. Sure I said (21 years old). I was then brought to the Lake Side convention center. I sat through a meeting were we where basically told we couldn't leave until it was over. I sat through the meeting getting a bad feeling the whole way. They didn't say what they were selling or who they were. The used the name Youngblood Enterprises and claimed that they were a marketing company. After the 2 hour meeting they finally said that they were Amway. Having had the childhood experience I basically rejected it with every fiber of my being.

1 year later....

Flying to St. Louis, MO to get married to my High School sweetie. I'm sitting beside a very attractive young lady. She notices that I'm reading some computer journals and asks me what do I do for a living. I tell her. I then ask her the same question. She tells me that she works for a marketing company. I look at her and say "Don't tell me, Amway?". Sure enough I was sitting beside one on the plane. Needless to say, my response shut her up and we didn't speak the rest of the way.

1 year later....

I was manager of a warehouse and one of my employees starts reading this book "Think and Grow Rich". Then he started asking me about my job and if I wanted to make extra money. I tell the guy that I'm not interested in Amway. He spends the next 6 months dropping me hints the whole time about how much better his life will be when he gets his business going.

As you can see, I seem to have the gift of drawing them. I must fit the demographic. But I want everyone to remember this. You can never make more money if you are only spending yours.

March 17, 1999

Tell me something....how are you living? What would you tell people who complain about their jobs? Or lost their jobs? Or who have went to college and spent considerable amount of money....only to end up broke? Have you at least tried to help others? Don't you have anything better to do than this?? I mean, there are other companies, Multi-level that is to talk about....why is Amway your main focus? I will confess, my business is not where I want it to be, but that doesn't make Amway bad...Maybe it's people who have been subconsciencly taught by society to be a good person, go to church, attend school, go on to college get good grades and work hard for someone who don't care about you and pays you the least amount of it cost to replace you? Man you need a life....no wonder why you have barely over 5,600 visitors to your site... And about me writing this long...it's because I want to do this... and you now know why I wrote this long....and if this ever get posted....make sure you post it all for I will keep and copy of this in my files....

Have a great and blessed day!!

With Humility,

Marco A. Hunt
A.D.A.#2000956

March 17, 1999

I just discovered your web site, and I see that you've been fooled terribly. You talk about Amway's $7B revenue in 1997, and the drop to $5.7B in 1998. Those numbers aren't revenue, rather, they are "sales at estimated retail".

Imagine that Amway's stuff was actually sold to an actual customer at the hilariously high "retail" prices that Amway advertises. If everything that Amway sold was sold at that price, the total revenue generated would be $5.7B for last year. Given that 70-90% of the stuff (Amway's numbers) goes to Amway's distributors, the actual total revenue generated is far lower.

Using standard Amway mark-ups, my guess is that Amway Corp.'s actual corporate revenue is between 70% and 80% of the "estimated retail" number published. As you know, Amway is a privately held company, so these numbers are not made public. Amway hasn't published an honest revenue figure since 1963. (See http://www.amway.com/infocenter/pressrel/pressrel45.asp and search for "1964" in your browser window)

You also make some points about Amway's growth. Amway loves to talk about their phenomenal growth, which is laughable. For a 40 year old, international retailer, they're tiny. But back to my point. Amway's growth in the early 90's was large, and in fact, they love to point out that in the 1990's, the company has seen 300% sales growth. Let's talk about numbers.

After seeing the long-term growth mentioned so frequently, I assumed that they'd had short-term losses, which we both know was 18% last year. Note that "18%" and "300%" should not be confused! It looks like the 18% loss was minimal against the 300% growth. In fact, the sales growth was from $2.1B (these figures, again, are estimated retail, not actual revenue or anything resembling actual revenue) in 1990, all the way to $7B in 1997, for a growth of 3 1/3, or 333%. But that 18% drop comes from the 333%, which effectively means that their growth for the 1990's is down to 271%, a 60% drop from their high. If that's too confusing, look at it this way: They started the 90's at $2.1B and are now at $5.7B, so they can no longer claim 3x growth. I can't wait for this August :)

My educated guess is that domestic sales (and # of distributorships) has been on a decline since the very early 90's. According to their own stats: http://www.amway.com/infocenter/questions/question37.asp Amway has opened up 25 new markets in the 90's, which apparently fueled their growth. Now that those markets have flattened, particularly Japan, the sales growth has begun to disappear. This shouldn't be a surprise given that 1) almost half the distributors leave each year, 2) very few people are interested in Amway, and 3) we have a limited population to deal with. Amway's only chance at survival is to find another planet, preferably of people with bad math skills. Or, they could fundamentally change their business in an effort to rejuvenate the pyramid.

And that's probably what the new "e-business" is all about. The entire worldwide business is in decline, so they're opening up the new internet mall. But I've seen plenty about it, and it's clear that Amway cannot compete with online retailers such as buy.com, amazon,com, shopping.com, walmart.com, and the many others. They simply cannot offer competitive pricing, which drives online retailing, given their business structure. Also, given that they are taking almost a year to get this thing online, it's clear that they don't have the nimbleness necessary to compete in the cut-throat world of internet marketing.

Now, that's not to say that they won't succeed. They will make money. At least, the DeVos and Van Andel families will. But they'll make it off the same hapless rubes who are currently paying a premium to get the stuff delivered to their door and make a bonus check and retire in 2-5 years. Few regular internet buyers will bother to get a distributor's IPO # in order to view an online catalog. Most of those who go that far won't care to buy the overpriced products once they get in there. So it'll be like Amway stuff now, mostly sold to distributors who have those "diamond dreams."

One other quick point. Amway claims to have 3M distributors worldwide. At that, $5.7B estimated retail is about $2000/distributor/year, which realistically is probably $1500/distributor/year in actual revenue, or $125/month. Consider the phony earnings claims in the light of $125/month/person. Consider that most of that $125 goes to Amway, the remainder (what is it, 10%?) goes to the distributors. Clearly, very few people *can* make money at Amway, and not surprisingly, very few are.

Feel free to use my name and email address anywhere you'd like. As you've probably noticed, I get a lot of my anti-Amway information from Amway's website. If you aren't baffled by BS, you'll find that they have all the numbers there to see just how terribly bad their business is.

March 18, 1999

Dear John, I have to congratulate you for your super expose on Amway. My [sister] has been in for [over 5] years, has sponsored some, but mostly has spent thousands of dollars on "functions and tools". [Her] marriage has fallen apart, and [she] is now having a "warm, close relationship" with her "Upline Emerald"...wow, not to mention how [she] is begging me to join [her] in the "Quixtar, not Amway" business. The brainwashing is complete, and I believe in MLM as I'm in one.. that I make money with... Anyway, at least I can understand at last the bizarre world [she] has entered...
Thanks again, and keep on trucking!
Sincerely,

March 21, 1999

From: IVAdolf@aol.com
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999
To: John Hoagland
Subject: same as the rest

I want to tell you how strange I think it is that you have not posted any new messages since the year 1998. I have been involved with Amway for just a few months now and have seen both the good and the bad about this business. The good is that my husband and I have never spent so much time together. We are building our dream of what could come, and I guess we have to try and at least see what we can do. You don't have to invest all kinds of money, that's up to you. We have only invested around $300.00 for this business opportunity, our upline has helped is the whole way through. I find it interesting that people say that Amway scammed them out of money, who made these people buy anything that they didn't want to buy. The problem is that they have failed at something and instead of blaming themselves for their own failure, they blame the corporation instead. Just like when you are fired from a job, it's always the fault of another person, for it surely wouldn't have accrued through any fault of your own. I find it so interesting that I have all these same negative thoughts and questions about whether this can work or nor, but what if it can??? Is it so awful to think that there have been people who became very successful at this and maybe I could too? What;s wrong with that. Stop trying to crush others hopes. This isn't a perfect business, but what business is? Every business has it failures and it so happens to be that you are one of these failures in the Amway business. I wonder, have you ever failed at anything else, and if so did you start a website on that too?

Give it up, it's sad that you feel the need to continue to blame a business for your own inadequacies.

March 24, 1999

Mr. Hoagland,

First of all I want to thank you for your site. My wife and I have recently been approached by the father of a good friend of ours about "getting in the business."

Today I spent more than 13 hours on the Internet looking at every site I could find ( both pro & con) about Amway. Based on all the information that we obtained today, we have just sent an e-mail to our contact telling him that we decline to partake in this venture.

I just wanted to make a comment about how they are promoting the new Quixtar scheme, in case you were unaware of it. It is being sold as a "joint venture" between Amway, IBM and Microsoft. IBM, they claim is putting up 2 million dollars for the server that will run and support this e-mall, and Microsoft is developing all of the needed software. Based upon some of the things I read today concerning Amway's claims to be involved in "joint ventures" with other companies, I wonder if IBM and Microsoft are aware of this partnership?

Again sir, we thank you (and all the other folks who have sites concerning Amway) for the information you have provided. Had it not been for the Internet allowing us instant access to information such as you and others provide, I feel we may have committed ourselves to something I am sure we would have regretted later.

March 25, 1999

I just attended an "EC Pre-Launch Seminar", (EC = Electronic Commerce) which turned out to be an online mega-mall (quixtar.com) to be launched 9/1/99, owned by Amway. Having read Steve Hassan's book, and having gottem my sister out of Scientology, I recognized it pretty quickly as a cult-indoctrination, and found out about Amway and your site as soon as I came home and logged on. (InterNIC reports that the domain Quixtar.com is owned by Amway.)

The sad thing is that my new next door neighbors are the people who brought us to this thing, and we really like them. I can't seem to find much on the net regarding this new branch of Amway -- can you give me any pointers?

March 25, 1999

Dear John,

First off, I have found your site to be done very well and professionally. I myself have not been a distributor but have been approached three times for recruiting. The first time my wife was the initial contact who set up a meeting at our home with the man. He came and gave a very long presentation, 2 hours, during which I was noticing a lot of inherent problems in the system. He stated you only have to get 6 people who recruit 6 people for three tiers. I have an engineering background and am somewhat comfortable with numbers and realized he was describing a logarithmic function. Bells are ringing because the numbers he was so calmly discussing were in the thousands. Finally he reached the part where he said the word, "Amway". I immediately thanked him for his time and told him I was not interested. He insisted upon giving me some tapes, which in my ignorance took, they provided him an opportunity for a follow-up. Well, when he called I told him I did not listen to the tapes and he immediately demanded them back. My response was help yourself. He had went from lovebombing to foul.

The next experience was interesting as it is one of my wife's friends. We were at their house when they began discussing it, I immediately said no thanks. My wife and her were friends (her husband was the one with the "dream") and she eventually confided in her that he was beating her. What a great example of an upstanding man, huh?

The third was the best yet. By now I was experienced and more than irritated, This couple kept up the pressure that eventually became very twisted when he offered to swap wives. Whew! I got away from them as fast as possible. (He later got in trouble for sexual harassment at work)

So I remain jaded by these sterling examples of Amway soldiers. I have chosen to work my JOB and invest and am very happy about the whole thing. Thanks you for your time.

March 25, 1999

I am the [e-mail author] from [South Carolina] who has written you [a few times] times in the past month or two. I just wanted to say that I admire you for having the courage to keep your web site up even after the vicious attacks by Amway. It really cracks me up to see the new messages on your site.

The negative ones always seem to tell an all too familiar story of their disillusionment with "the business" and the heartache or controversy that it caused. The pro-Amway people always remind me of the multitude of tapes that I heard while in the business. On those tapes you are constantly reminded that the person speaking has some power (usually God-given and usually flowing from the system) which helped them to reach their lofty level. To the Amway faithful the rest of the general public are nothing but mindless and dreamless drones with "J O B 's" who will never amount to anything without the wonderful help of the "God anointed" Amway business. When I read the pro-Amway responses, I see the usual quotes from the emeralds and diamonds showing through. The sad part of this whole scenario is that the very people who spout these platitudes will sooner or later be the very same people who go broke and then can't figure out how they screwed up!

I wish that people who think about joining Amway would really sit back and look at their financial situation. When you get right down to it these people probably are not that bad off. Sure, we all want to be "debt free" and have the finer things in life. However, imagine what a family could do if they took the money they needlessly poured into the system and invested it properly. Contrary to what the Amway folks will say, properly invested money will do much better for you than money spent on mindless tapes, worthless functions and other "tools for success". Prudent investing of the thousands spent on Amway has a better chance of producing a much better return. I think of the thousands that I spent on the Amway business and cringe when I think that I could be earning a return on that money instead of spending monthly income on debt payments!

Further, it disgusts me to think of the lives that are destroyed by Amway activity. They say that they are "pro-family" but the reality is much different. My wife an I had a great marriage until Amway came along. It did not happen immediately, but slowly the business worked to undermine our marriage. I was the "go getter" and "the leader of the household" for our time in the business. This worked for about 6 months. The problem was I started to see my wife as an underling after awhile. She is a highly intelligent and capable person. The role of "helpmeet" did not suit her well. (Contrary to what Bill Britt says, God never intended a women to be a mindless, subservient clone who cannot think for herself-- sorry Peggy!). Before the business we went through life as a team of equals. Once in the business, that attitude was not appropriate and we paid for this Amway forced conversion. Following the counseling of our "plugged in" direct (a dentist) and the other Amway doctrine nearly destroyed our marriage. Either she thought I was not good enough at building the business or I felt she was not supportive enough, etc.. I can say that, since leaving that "wonderful" business, we are now back to normal. She is a wonderful wife and I respect her intellect. (Believe it or not, I actually respect her opinion!). We are now pursuing our dreams the normal way and life is good. However, many scars still exist. I can say from experience that even the strongest of marriages is not immune from the undermining influence of the Amway Motivational Organization perspective. Anyone who joins Amway after finding out the truth from your web site, or the many others, is stupidly asking for trouble. Thank you for exposing the truth about that despicable business. If you save even one marriage or single person from the holocaust of Amway, your site has served its purpose.

March 27, 1999

Hi John,

I really like the scope of your web-site! It is very thorough, and I like all the cross-references and definitions (Glossary of People, Events, Terms, and Things Found in the Amway Business). It really helps me to understand some areas of the business that were vague, or non-defined up until now. I thank you for that.

I really appreciate the fact that you have presented everything from such a reasonable perspective.

I really like the people I'm working with, but your site brings many "sides" of the business up for a closer examination which, I believe, is healthy.

I didn't really have a reason, (or should I say agenda?!), for writing to you, other than the fact that the information on the site is welcomed and brings an overall balance to what can be, at times, a somewhat narrow perspective.

At any rate, thanks for your effort and the info, and in every venture, I wish you Peace and Prosperity.

Sincerely, [A distributor]

March 30, 1999

John,
I guess I was razzle dazzled by a distributor & took 45 minutes to listen to a slick business plan and then went to a super hyped testimonial meeting. They talked about Quixtar and the new e-commerce business that will do 100 billion in 5 years. WOW. Yes I was taken in and impressed. Yes I did not check out all the facts and signed up in one day after the big motivational and informational meeting. I paid my $218.00 and set up for a one on one meeting to go through all the stuff and get my KIT! I was told that it was optional to receive tapes but I could be put on standing order and get all the up to date tapes for only $70.00 a month. I said nothing as I thought it was a little high. Later that evening during my sign up, I received the catalogue with the price list that I was waiting for. I started checking prices and found the wholesale prices to be quite high and the mark-ups quite low. This is when I decided that I could not sell this to friends without conviction. I felt that I would be conning them. Why does a person not get this information up front.Why don't they tell you its Amway up front. Do they have a bad rep? At sign up, I was charged for every form, every booklet, every tape, anything I ever received. I even was charged for one form for 28 cents! Later that night, I decided to check the web for information on Amway. Well thanks to your web site and my gnawing instincts John, I made a decision. Enough was enough and I packed everything up and dropped it off at the Distributor's office. I am waiting for my check but I am sure I will get my money back.

March 21, 1999

From: breon@mwt.net
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1999
To: John Hoagland
Subject: Huh?

It looks like you must have invested quite a bit of time and money in your web-site! I have to comment on the ease of navigation. Very nice. So, what does Wal-mart pay you for all this so-called research? Looks like Wal-mart has tried to, unsuccesfully, infiltrate Amway. I realize that WAl-mart is getting very nervous about Amway's growth, they even sent me a thank you letter for buying some products there.

I just want to comment , I truly enjoy my network of people who actually are very positve and pleasant people to be around! I enjoy listening to the uplifting tapes!

I find it refreshing compared to all the negativity found on tv and even on the web!

I also own another business besides my Amway business, I was well aware of the catologue pricing prior to signing up! Your figures are compelling but I find them trying to favor Wal-mart, once again. Walmart has never once sent me a check for 100$ for telling my friends to shop there, if Amway was really so bad, then tell me why it has been working for 40 years? I think it is horrendous that you try to bad mouth a fine company! I was fully aware of the costs of using any business support materials- it does cost some money to run any business properly! I am glad that the equipment that I purchase for my other business is available or else I wouldn't be able to hire out drivers to drive those 100,000$ semi's I purchased, oh, yes I have to pay taxes on that profit too! It really isn't that bad, seeing how much money those big expensive trucks bring in, I guess the cost of the "tools" for my trucking business makes sense!! Please, do those 'what you call', "poor suckers" a favor-don't mislead those who don't have a business mind- this Amway business may be the only thing they can use to actually achieve any dream-however small!

God Bless, from the breons, breon@mwt.net

April 4, 1999

I recently decided to join Amway only to "roll over" to Quixtar. I found your web site to be very interesting and accurate in many cases. I too have a problem with the 30%, the income generated from the videos, tapes and so on. I have been in about five NWM companies and have decided that this business needs a pick up. I do feel like Quixtar is the "Wave 4" in this industry and I plan on making a supplemental income because of it. The one thing I still believe about NWM is the idea of doing business with people/friends instead of your television. There are many businesses in our society that manipulate us, but we seem to only bad mouth this one. It's ok to have corruption in our faces, drugs, guns, and violence in our schools, porno/sex in front of us daily, tv selling lies and passivism. This business is good, but the people make it right or wrong. Man, I'm kind of ticked that Bill Britt is charging $16 for a video. You're right, these tools should be there to help us - not cost us. But a $157 kit and the option to buy from yourself is no big risk. I didn't like some of the prices, but I also really liked some too. There are many things that blow the competition away, but there are also many that are even and there are others that are 40% more expensive - I would not try to build this business if it weren't for Quixtar. I have been looking for this concept ever since I found out what NWM was. You also need to let people know that this isn't a "front end loaded" concept. Those! should be eliminated. I have also found that I only want to build this type of business if it is a service. People need to have the ability to use it when, where and how they choose.

Our society is going to hell in a hand basket real fast. We feed our children TV, violence, status, power and the ability to have the American Dream. But that dream is money. We need to focus on the ability money can give us.... only if used positively. Your whole argument could be used to fight alcohol or tobacco or staying with a company and having them treat you with respect and not downsize you or take away your pension at the last minute! Please understand that I have seen what you are saying and agree with you in many cases. Some of these people in this business need their heads examined. We are only meant to offer a choice. Please note that this concept musn't suck too bad... AOL just tried it and failed! Networking is the future and it needs to be driven by integrity and truth. The tactics you decribe are true for those who are using them, but they don't just belong to MLM. How about the lies and deceit created by the credit card system. Thats just an advanced form of slavery! Money, Money, Money. What do you drive? What out fit are you wearing. How much in your stock portfolio! All built on lies and even more- built on debt! Our financial system is a lie meant to control.

John, I thank you for being out there. We need voices like yours, but we also need them for other reasons. You have so much information and creativity with your words to be able to do something positive.

The internet.... what is going to happen when those companies are able to offer their products for less than Quixtar. Do they close their doors at the mall or stop selling to Wal Mart? What's to happen to all the people who are living pay check to pay check. They can't go to the mall. They have to go to the net but the net can't create any income for them. Unless you join AOL select or this. How about the junk they sell on the home shopping network. Man, that is a miracle. I can't belive that has made it. Those dolls they sell sure are cute. You know, they should buy from their tv instead of the person who specializes in what they want.

Please keep up the site. And let me know what happens with the P&G scandal. Amway should have just stayed out of it and let them go. Lead by example. We need to get out of our courts and into our lives. I would like any comments you have about Quixtar to be forwarded. I would NEVER approach this business like Amway-ers did, do. $6 for a tape! C'mon!!! Help us - don't capitalize on us!

April 5, 1999

From: david brown
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999
To: John Hoagland
Subject: Huh?

From what I get out of some of these web sites you may need to look for someone with horns on their head, a red cape, goat feet, a long pointed tail, and carrying a pitchfork.

Shouldn't you find something better to do than to waste time bashing a PROVEN money making system that works for anyone who will work with it? And that's all it is, a way to make money, period. If it is not the way you prefer to make money, no problem, make money your own way, but don't put down someone else's lifestyle or business just because you don't agree with it yourself.

Thanks for your time

April 6, 1999

From: Tim Herman
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999
To: John Hoagland
Subject: Amway

I came across your web site last night and I must say I was somewhat surprised. I say somewhat because I realize there are people who have bad feelings toward Amway, I just didn't realize how strongly those feelings are. You sure have put a lot of time and effort into discrediting Amway. From what I could understand, you're reason for this is because they're trying to abolish your right to speak badly of them. I could be missing something. It certainly won't be the first ! time.

My personal feelings are that everyone has the right to speak their mind, but must we be so nasty and hurtful in doing so? I also agree that people have the right to be told "the whole truth and nothing but the truth". I wonder though, how many companies actually tell us "the whole truth and nothing but the truth". Not very many I bet.

I'd like to ask you a few questions? How do you know that items shown in pictures of Diamonds lifestyles are fraudulent? What's wrong with hiring someone to help you run your business once you become a Diamond? What's wrong with distributors saying "Amway products are the best?" Doesn't everyone in sales say their products are the best? What's wrong with being upbeat and positive at meetings? What's wrong with being extra nice and friendly to someone new? When I was new to a job the people&! nbsp;were extra friendly to me. The world could certainly use a good dose of positive attitude. What's wrong with the language lingo distributors use? Every group, every organization, has their own language lingo that most people who didn't hang out with that group, or who didn't work for that particular organization would not understand. Is that to say they too are somehow cult related? I don't think so. So what if distributors say Amway deals with 2,000 Fortune 500 companies or 200? It's just a nu! mber. I believe all sales people fudge a little when they're trying to sell their product. I believe most everyone would understand what "debt-free" implies. The normal monthly expenses, such as power, phone, water, cable, food, etc., goes without saying. Why should they (distributors) mention an 18 percent decline in sales for the previous year? I seriously doubt anyone would be so inclined to mention to a prospect that one particular point.

I agree with you on a lot of points you made regarding what distributors do and what they say, and well, what they don't say. I was a distributor a few years ago, and I know, as you do, that some things that are done and said are not "the whole truth and nothing but the truth".

Here are some things that I had a problem with:

When we first became distributors it was I who went to the first open meeting. It was I who had the follow up. It was I who did the phone calls. It was I who went on the first QI (that's what it use to be called). In other words I started our Amway business. When my husband decided to get involved I was pushed aside. I was told that there are parts of the business that husbands handle and parts of the business that wives handle. I'm a very independent person and&nb! sp;I had real problems with this. However, I decided to let it slide. When I ask questions I was told not to worry about it, or that in time I would find out the answer. I can understand that you can't learn everything in a day. I also understand that being told everything at once is overwhelming and I would not be able to retain it all. I agree that learning as you go is by far the best way. Like on the job training. However, there were times when our upline ! ;was too evasive, or they just flat out refused to answer me. I let it slide! I didn't agree with being out to the wee morning hours working a business especially when you had a job to go to the next day. I totally disagreed with leaving your children all the time. I was told time and time again that it would only be that way for a while, that when we built our business to the Diamond level we'd have all the time we wanted to spend with our girls, who were then 10 and! 4. My response was "they're not going to stop growing while I'm building a business. They need me now, not just when I'm a Diamond. So when we went to the major functions, hundreds of miles away from home. I took my two girls with us. I remember hearing a Diamond Lady say at Free Enterprise that her daughter was upset with her because she wasn't going to be able to go to the first football game where she was a cheerleader. Her response to her daughter was "it's more im! portant for me to be at the function so I can help other people realize their dream of being a Diamond". I almost fell out of my chair. This lady was our upline Diamond. Needless to say, I didn't regard her opinions of child rearing to be one that I would adhere to. I never miss any of my children's first anything. They are much more important to me than any amount of money or time. Another big issue for me was the way they (our upline) treated people who didn't work the! business exactly the way they felt they should do so. They talked badly about them. They ignored them. They would tell us not to spend time with them. These people were my friends! And even if they weren't my friends, no one deserves to be treated that way. Our upline PSD once said about a distributor who committed suicide "oh well, she wasn't working the business anyway". I was never that fond of him anyway, but that comment said everything about what he was made of. He totall! y lost any respect I had ever had for him. Have you ever heard the saying "listen to your growing upline". I questioned my husband about that statement many times. Our upline wasn't growing so why should we be so willing to give up our time to listen to them. We wanted to grow. We wanted to be Diamonds but I felt like we were fighting a loosing battle. What started out as hope for a better future slowly turned to disgust and almost a divorce. My husband could ! ;not or would not see what I saw. Our upline (the men mainly) blamed me for our business not working, and eventually for quitting. I was told "you let the devil steal your dreams". I have never come so close to physically assaulting anyone before. I said "you're so wrong", "it wasn't the devil, it was my upline", "but then, the devil will use whatever means possible to destroy you." Needless to say we have lost touch with the people who so profoundly professed that we were their friends ! and who said we were so very important to them.

Through it all, I never once blamed the Amway Corporation or it's owners. They are but two people. How can they possibly be held responsible for the actions of others. They have set rules and guidelines to go by. If people don't adhere to those rules and guidelines, sure, they (the individual distributors) should be held accountable for breaking them, not the company or it's owners. I'm not saying that Rich Devos or Jay VanAndel are perfect and without fault. I'm sure they've made their share of m! istakes, just as our twice elected President has. You don't want me to get started on that mistake!

I still believe the Amway business could be a good opportunity. There just needs to be some changes made in the way the distributors present it. Someone, somewhere, could turn it all around and make it better.

Thank you for allowing me to express myself. I'm not perfect either. I'm sure I've made some grammatical errors and so forth. Hopefully you get the jest of what I was trying to say.

April 6, 1999

John,

I found your Amway site to be interesting and intriguing. I must admit though, that what I'm really curious about is what might have happened to you to inspire such a gargantuan effort? I can only assume that you were "In the business." I was in twice myself.

Although I had two bad experiences, I am considering a return. The first failing was because I was not ready and my sponsor blew mw off. The second was more what you describe. My sponsor pushed for me to do things he knew that I couldn't afford. The last straw was when we went to an out of state function that left me unable to pay rent. What makes that so significant is that he was my landlord and he evicted me for late rent.

I'm looking at it now with a few more years of wisdom and understanding. Sure, neither sponsor had the "Love" for me that they said they did. But, I made my own stupid decisions. I never "had to." So they weren't really after my best interests. So what?

If I do return to the ranks of Amway, it will be because I'd like to take advantage of an opportunity that is there. I will no longer allow myself to be railroaded or intimidated by anyone else.

I don't believe that I will ever be a "Diamond." But, then, I don't really want to either. Sure, the money would be nice. But I no longer dream in green. I enjoy life now. I think I'm a happy and content enough man to not get overrun by "the system."

Whatever you do John, do dream and do go out and seize the day. Life can exist anywhere!

April 6, 1999

I was so relieved to find your website. My husband and I have been married for [about 30] years. [Over 5] years ago he joined Amway. I have to admit that I also signed the contract after receiving much pressure from my husband and against my better judgement. Once we were committed to the business, I tried very hard to understand it and accept what they told us, but the information and manner in which it was told went against every good instinct I had. I was never able to swallow the information that they put out at their meetings, seminar and rallys and major functions. Two days before a [seminar/ rally] I could feel my stomach tightening up and nausea starting in. I would become tearful and very depressed. The functions were even worse!

My life has completely changed. My husband is gone almost every night and when he is home he is on the phone making new contacts and following up with leads. He has become so absored with Amway that he has distanced himself from all his old friends, myself and our children--he just doesn't have time. When the rare occasion comes up that we go out to dinner, a movie or the theater, I feel that he is only partially there as he's always looking around to see if there is an opportunity for him to make a new contact. I am angry, disappointed in him and also have lost a lot of respect for him. He thinks that I will "come around" and see Amway for the wonderful opportunity it is once he is making the big money. I completely got out of this business a few months ago and am physically feeling much better--no more throwing up in the middle of the night but I am still saddened by the way our marriage has deteriorated over these past several years.

My husband was a wonderful man with many fine characteristics and strengths. He was a wonderful father, caring husband, good provider and lots of fun to be with. I can no longer say the same about him. I am seriously considering leaving him. The crazy thing is I know he loves me very much but he's also angry at me for not supporting him.

I am grateful for the fact that he did not get into this business when our children were young. At least they had the opportunity to